Mega-post: the definitive guide to selling your shoes on eBay: from best practices to worst pitfalls
Selling your shoes on eBay is a good way to rationalise your collection, and also to recoup a bit of extra money to spend on important purchases like... more shoes. This step-by-step guide should give you all you need to get started. It's based on my own experience of about 15 years of selling and buying men's shoes (and tailoring) on eBay.
I sell from the UK, with most of my buyers in the UK or Europe (though pre-Covid, Japanese and American buyers were also common) so some of this may be of less use depending on where you live.
Have some shoes to sell
First things first - a good starting point to know more about major British shoe brands is here. In terms of knowing what will sell well, the dress shoe industry has taken a bit of a beating from Covid and Brexit has also dented confidence in customers - I'm typically taking a lot longer to sell things, and the additional taxes have made people wary about purchasing at the prices they used to.
Clean your shoes
A well-cleaned, conditioned and polished pair of shoes will always photograph better and generally sell better than a really sad, tired-looking pair, so this should be the first step. This doesn't require massive investment in materials, but it can pay dividends in future sales. The minimum should be:
- Leather cleaner (eg. Saphir Renomat) to remove built-up polish and conditioner
- Leather conditioner (eg. Saphir Renovateur) to condition the leather
- A selection of coloured polishes, either cream or wax. Black, mid-brown, dark brown and burgundy should give good coverage. A neutral wax polish is useful for any shoe
- A pair of stiff brushes for cleaning (one for black and one for coloured polishes)
- A cloth for buffing (old socks, tights... lots of things can be repurposed for this. As long as you can pull the material taut to polish with)
- For suede you can use some washing-up liquid diluted in water, applied with a stiff brush and then washed with water and left to dry - don't feel obliged to get expensive suede cleaning liquids
There are ample guides out there on shoe care so do have a read around, and you don't have to buy Saphir products as they are on the higher end of the price scale, but the fundamentals are simple and effective. Get your pair looking presentable before proceeding.
For an example of the difference, here is a before and after of a recent pair I bought following some basic cleaning and care (this also demonstrates the value of some of the subsequent points on photography).
Before - this was the original eBay listing I purchased
After - following a good clean, condition, polish and with shoe trees and better lighting
Replace laces if needed
Once the uppers are cleaned, you may want to replace any really old or frayed laces - laces are very affordable to buy in bulk, and a crappy-looking pair of laces won't help to convince buyers. Keep some dark brown, mid-brown and black and it will cover most bases. Just ensure they fit the style and quality of the shoe you are selling (and are long enough for the number of eyelets, obviously).
Next check the side of the shoe. The side of the shoe will frequently get scuffed with normal wear, especially at the front. This can be easily touched up with some polish if you want to even out the colour a bit - just apply carefully and buff it off.
If it's really worn you might need some edge dressing - this is a dye that can be applied with a brush. This will take a bit more patience, but can really restore the appearance if done well. The black pair above were somewhat scuffed around the edge, but black is also one of the easier colours to neatly apply edge dressing for, so this was applied after the above points on cleaning, conditioning and polishing of the uppers.
Check soles and assess the condition
If the sole is heavily worn then it's probably beyond your ability to substantially repair or replace, but you can clean them as much as possible with some washing-up detergent diluted in water and a stiff brush then leaving them to air-dry on their sides.
Note that sole condition is one of the big determining factors for selling price - if a pair will need a resole in the near future, the buyer will want to factor that into the cost. But remember that a shoe will quickly look less than pristine after a single wear, so don't get caught out by sellers trying to bullshit that a pair is really heavily worn even if they have only had a bit of normal wear. For context, this is a brand new sole:
This is the exact same shoe after three moderate wears outside:
Don't be fooled by the Instagram aesthetic of immaculate-looking soles being the norm - unfortunately, the end result of such beautiful-looking soles from makers like Gaziano & Girling is that they can look quite worn in comparison after only a few journeys.
I've written about assessing sole condition at length here - for the purposes of this guide, you should be able to see pretty quickly if the shoes are unworn or nearly new. If they are more worn, feel for a sponginess or "thinness" by pressing on the sole with your finger. If there is substantial give, it's likely the sole has worn and the cork in the footbed has been compacted.
The worst sign is the formation of actual holes (shoes should be repaired before holes form!) This will take a lot off the amount you can sell them for as a full resole will be needed, but beyond that you can generally assume that if somebody neglected their shoes enough to let holes form, then the uppers and insides were also similarly neglected.
You can also review the condition of the rubber at the heel stack - on a new pair this will be flush with the ground, so if this has worn to an obvious angle that will reflect substantial wear regardless of what the seller says.
Use trees for photos
Always insert shoe trees before taking photos. Any shoes, but especially well-worn ones, will look infinitely better with trees in. Just ensure you specify if the trees are included in the auction price (and be mindful that they will add a lot to the package weight). Look again at this pair with and without trees:
If you are selling a lot of shoes, invest in some nicer-looking full wooden trees - sometimes the spring-loaded (such as those below) can cheapen the look of the shoe. A decent-quality pair of wooden shoe trees can be grabbed on Amazon for £20 or less.
Lighting your photographs
Things get a bit more complicated at this stage. It used to be that a Digital SLR camera was a minimum for good selling photos, but in most cases, a modern phone camera will do a sufficient job. If you do want to delve into dedicated cameras then there are better blogs out there than can help with this. I use a fairly old Canon EOS 500D with a basic 18-55mm lens.
In terms of lighting - more is generally better. Darker coloured leathers can require a lot of light to get a clear and representative photo. This seller sometimes struggles with their lighting, and you can see that the end result for this black pair of John Lobbs lacks clarity.
The shot below is a very similar pair from my own collection. I hope you will agree, it does a better job of showing the general shape and details of the pair. Lighting is especially important for black leather, as it is the reflection on the curve of the leather that will highlight the edges.
I use a tripod-stand lamp with 4 pretty bright daylight bulbs, with a reflector shade around it. These can be obtained on eBay pretty easily and the same bulbs have lasted for about 10 years now, so a good investment.
Traditionally, eCommerce photos were shot in white lightboxes, which gives even lighting and makes it easy to crop the background. But I think a more natural-looking background is good for eBay. I use a neutral coloured throw, which adds some nice texture and looks less stark. I picked up the use of the throw as a background from the photos of the excellent classicshoesformen.com, an example of which is below, with my own shot below that. Alternatively, a nice wooden or leather surface can look quite appealing.
Note that the classicshoesformen example spotlights the shoe but leaves the background darker, which is a nice effect that creates quite a distinct aesthetic.
If you have access to a large window or outdoor space, natural lighting can work very well and produce a soft and diffuse look that can be very flattering. Two examples of that are below - note also the shallow depth of field that adds a nice look.
Or a more traditional lightbox photo, which is the best way to achieve even lighting (though can look a bit clinical) and allows you to crop and clean the background quite easily.
(Bonus) How not to photograph your shoes
This is a bit of an unkind section, but hopefully, it will help to prevent you making the same mistakes.
Over-exposed photos - this is most common with darker coloured leathers, but can be seen with lighter colours as well.
Unflattering angles - experiment with getting the best angle for your shoes, generally top-down or an angled side profile will look best. Shoes shot from the toe rarely look appealing.
Inefficient composition - I think this seller wanted to maximise the box and bags in the photo, but the end result is that the shoes look very small in the image. Generally the toe section is the focal feature of a pair of shoes (especially brogues) so bring that to the forefront.
What photographs to take
General minimum photos of a pair of shoes will include variations of:
- Side profile
- Inner lining
You can have up to 12 listings on an eBay listing, so max it out to show as much detail as you can. Ideally, you should be able to see the shoes from all angles, though for a brand new pair it's arguably less important. For an older or more worn pair, it's important to identify any wear or damage. It can help to get a zoom on these so you can highlight them in the description.
For the inside of the shoe, show the footbed logo and the size label. Ensure also that you photograph any extras like boxes, trees or other materials.
Don't be tempted to steal photos from the manufacturer's website if your shoes are in anything less than perfect condition. For one thing, I'm pretty sure it's against eBay's T&Cs to do so, but for another, it just doesn't help the buyer. Many is the time I've clicked on a listing using the manufacturer's photo (of a pristine pair, obviously), then clicked through to the seller's photo of a much more worn and tired-looking pair. It's a disappointment for potential customers to set the wrong expectations like that, so avoid it.
The one time that using manufacturer's photos can be handy is in representing the exact shade as accurately as possible, especially when you are having trouble getting it across in your own images.
Your phone or eBay's listing service might offer to automatically tweak your photos. This is broadly fine, but just refer back to the original shoes before putting the photos live - the main thing is that the colour of the shoe itself hasn't been misrepresented. Beware the HDR function on your phone - it might make impressive-looking images, but the important thing is that they are accurate to the product.
You might want to tweak more aggressively if you feel like the reality of the colour has been lost in the photo. Free software like GIMP is an easy way to adjust basic levels - I do this sometimes for brightly coloured shoes where the leather looks much duller in the photo. Just be wary of overselling the shoe's vibrancy.
Uploading and setting photos for the auction
Photos can be uploaded once the product has been created for the auction. You can upload 12 photos - you probably want your primary photo to be a full image of the product, framed in such a way that it makes as much use of the thumbnail space as possible. eBay has built in basic editing functions for rotating and trimming photos.
Set the other photos with some sort of logic - I like to go primary photo, top-down shots, side shots, back shots, inside shots, soles, and then any other extras like box or trees. It can be confusing if you just upload them as a random jumble, so the order might look something like this - primary, top, side, back, sole, trees, inside, box:
The most important things to include in the title are:
[Brand] [shoe model or name] [material] [colour] [size] [width] [condition]
[Gaziano & Girling] [St James II Oxford] [Leather] [Cherry] [UK 9.5 F / US 10.5] [BNIB]
The brand name is what will bring in most search traffic, and the size is probably the most used navigational filter for customers. For the size, it can be beneficial to include UK and US shoe size equivalents if you can fit them. If you can squeeze in the last information too, that can help.
Abbreviations like NWT (New With Tags), NWOT (New Without Tags), BNIB (Brand New in Box) and NOS (New Old Stock) may also be included. Ensure that you only use terms like "Brand New" or "Pristine" if that is accurate.
Note the screenshot above - you can extend the title into a 55 character subtitle for £2 fee, though I think the better focus is condensing the key info into the main title.
Once you have set the product type for your listing and the title, you can add the selling features/attributes. Most of these will be self-explanatory, and the product type you choose (eg. Formal Shoes) will determine which will be available.
Some of these will be considered mandatory / required for the type of product, but try also to complete the recommended ones if you can. Try to complete UK, US and EU sizes, as international browsers may set those as their preferred navigation filter rather than wanting to convert to another standard.
Describing the condition and being honest
You have a field available for describing the condition of your shoes. Just be honest - the number of times I've seen pretty well-worn shoes with "only worn handful of times on carpet" is pretty amusing.
You are only shooting yourself in the foot if you are deceptive here. eBay allows New, New Without Box, New with Defects or Used as its conditions.
As a rule of thumb I'd say most of the shoes I sell fall into one of the following:
Brand new / unworn - these are rare since I mostly buy second-hand
Worn only a few times (often they are being sold as fit is no good)
Well-worn but with plenty of life left
Very well worn and probably in need of resoling or refurbishment in the not-too-distant future
The product description
My professional background is in online product copywriting, so this one is close to my heart. Add as much flavour and fun as you want, but keep in mind a few pet peeves:
Nobody cares why you are selling your shoes (so long as they aren't defective somehow). Don't feel pressured to explain that you are downsizing / never wear them / your wife hates them / they are haunted by the ghost of a Japanese schoolgirl (actually maybe do explain that one). Obviously, you can write whatever you want, but my pet peeve eBay cliche is "my loss is your gain" (as if either of you thinks this is a charitable act and not a transaction)
A bit of info about the brand or maker is always good and can add a slightly more credible vibe to the listing. Check the "About Us" section of the maker's website if you want to add some provenance
If you have any info about the model of shoe it can't hurt - you might be able to glean this from their site if it's a model still in production
Detail anything around the last and the fit if you can. The most useful is probably "I tend to wear a size xx and this too big for me", but if you can get more detailed then do so. Styleforum can be an invaluable resource for this
Give full detail around the condition, including any physical wear or damage to any part of the shoe. Failing to do so can set yourself up for unwanted returns, even if it does increase the chance of a sale (see later for details on when you cannot refuse returns)
You may want to give outsole and insole measurements with your listing. Sometimes this can help, but in many cases it might even confuse matters as there are many other more influential factors to how the shoe fits. The one time I'd say it can add real value is with selling bespoke shoes, where buyers will want to know if the shoes are precisely the same dimensions as each other (they probably aren't)
If you want to call out anything around delivery or returns in addition to the usual, do it here (but check later in the article for some caveats on that)
Setting a price
Sadly this is way less simple than it used to be. High-end dress shoe pricing has suffered from Covid with less demand for this type of shoe, and Brexit has hit international sales to and from the UK (where many of these shoes originate from).
The simplest thing is to have a look on eBay for the shoe you are selling, and then select "Completed listings" from the left-hand navigation to get a feel for the actual selling price.
In many cases, this will be something like 25 - 30% of the original RRP. The sad reality is that like most luxury products, there is a strong depreciation of value at work. I've written about this before here, but do remember that ultimately a thing is worth what someone will pay for it, not what you would like them to.
eBay will give a suggested price when you are setting your listing up - these can sometimes be accurate, but for more niche or specialist items can be way off. This can be why the offer function is useful to have in place - it will quickly give you an idea if your asking price was too optimistic.
By all means, if you're not in a rush to make a sale then set a high price and gradually reduce it until it sells, but for quick sales you will need to be pragmatic about what you are asking.
I use Fixed Price Buy It Now (BIN) auctions, allowing bidders to offer a best price. I set an auto-decline too at a certain price, so I don't have to deal with all the crappy low-ball offers that inevitably come through.
You might prefer the traditional auction format - this is probably better if you are after a fast sale, but I find it frustrating not knowing what the final price will be. You will generally see a huge jump in the bid prices just as the auction ends (eBay sniping continues to be a thing). You can of course set a reserve price if there is a bare minimum you need.
There is a personal preference here, and you also need to consider if you are actually open to a lower selling price or if you are completely firm on it (in my experience the former is more realistic than the latter).
Promoted listings and additional extras
eBay has various options for a more compelling listing, but of course, they all come at a price. I tend to use the option for a larger image on the results page, as it's not too much extra cost. You can also add a subtitle to your listing to get more keywords in - I'm less convinced by this, as you should probably be able to get all the essentials in the main title.
Promoted listings are available - I've never used this one as I'm seldom in a rush to sell, but it will push your result to the top of the results page for relevant searches and probably displays it in instances it otherwise wouldn't. There is a more substantial fee associated with this one, so it might be worth it for high-value, specialist items, or again if you want a fast sale.
Lastly, you now have the option to set a declining price as the auction time goes on and the item doesn't sell. This saves you the effort of manually doing so yourself, but I personally prefer to leave the price at a known level.
To an extent, it's up to you if you want to offer returns, but note that the power in eBay is with the buyer, and you should never be fooled into thinking otherwise. The sad reality is that the role of a seller is to do everything by the book, hope for the best and often have to placate quite unreasonable people in order to keep your money and not be left unreasonably poor feedback.
If your item never arrives, eBay guarantees a refund to the buyer. You can try to specify no returns beyond that, but there is a blanket option to return items under the "Item is not as described" condition. "Caveat emptor" style blanket refusals to entertain returns will not hold up under eBay's policies. Buyers always have the right to return an item that they claim does not match the description (INAD, or Item Not As Described) and this is a fairly broad umbrella under which to make complaints.
Realistically if somebody wants to return something, they can, so you may feel it's easier to just offer this. My preference is always to just accept them and move on to reselling. If I feel the buyer was acting in bad faith with the return I may also add them to the block list for future.
Shoes in particular are prone to needing returns for fitting reasons, so why beat around the bush? You might state "no returns for sizing reasons", but all the buyer has to really do is invent another reason. They will say the colour is different to the images, or that they are not new as described. How much effort would it for a very sneaky buyer to intentionally damage your new shoes just so they can return photo evidence to eBay? Life's too short for this shit, frankly. Just get them back and move on.
I once had to return a pair of shoes because they smelled so aggressively bad that I could not wear them - this was not mentioned in the listing. But imagine if I just wanted to return for sizing reasons - what is really to stop the buyer lying and claiming they smell terrible? It's hardly as though eBay are going to demand the parcel for a sniff-test.
Lastly, sellers must use a tracked service when sending returns - for the same reason you should send with one (an unscrupulous buyer could just claim they never recievced an untracked one). It's far too easy to abuse for either party otherwise.
Dealing with and sending offers
As I mentioned, I enable buyers to send offers on items. Most of these offers will be questions about the product, or attempts to haggle down to a lower price. Don't be afraid to just shut down haggling attempts if you are patently not going to meet in the middle - really, it's a waste of both of your time to prolong it.
eBay also allows you to send an offer to all the people watching an item - best used if you need a quick sale, but it can be pretty compelling if done right. I'd personally say only bother with this if you have a substantial discount - it's a bit laughable to be watching a £1,000 pair of shoes and get an offer from the buyer for the incredible bargain price of... oh goodness, £995 (what will I do with that £5 I saved?). Don't spam this feature either, it will annoy people.
Note that if a bidder sends an offer eBay will let you send 3 back and forth counter-offers. You normally have 24 hours to respond to an offer before it is off the table.
A solid box is a must- easy enough if you have the original shoebox (which should also be included as a selling point). Pack the shoes in the box, then pack in paper between the shoes and in any obvious "spaces" in the box to hold them securely in place. Shoes are pretty sturdy things, but you don't want the shoes banging around in rough transit. The toes are generally the most vulnerable part of the shoe (though it would take a hell of a bang to the box to do any real damage) but you might also find the shafts of softer leather boots can become a bit deformed if laid awkwardly in a box for a long time
If you are not including shoe trees, you can pack the shoes with rolled-up paper to fill the shoes out.
I use brown wrapping paper in several layers around the box itself. Tape the ends securely with brown tape to get a complete seal to the parcel. You may want to wrap the box itself in some sort of plastic on the off chance it gets wet, or just use a plastic shipping bag around the box. Whatever you do, ensure the box is sealed and there's no way it can come open.
I have received quite expensive shoes in the past just stuffed into a plastic postal bag, which is pretty reckless as a seller. It is very easy for parcels to be stuffed into crowded vehicles and crushed and squashed, and the cost of a box is very minimal.
For the address, either print or handwrite your label, then stick this to the front with clear tape over the front (if you don't do this then the ink will run if the label gets wet). Lastly, add a return label on the back - it won't happen often, but if something goes really wrong with delivery at least it has a chance of getting back to you.
My postage options look like this:
I use eBay GSP (Global Shipping Programme) for worldwide sales. This is a controversial service, as it adds a large extra cost to buyers by handling all the taxes and duties upfront. As a seller it can however take out the biggest hassle with international sales, which is posting overseas and losing track of progress when the parcel passes between couriers, or gets endlessly stuck at customs.
Prior to this I used to ship internationally, but had excluded countries that had a poor postal service. But with GSP, it is ultimately little financial risk to ship worldwide because it passes any risk of loss onto eBay - all you need to do is prove that your parcel has reached the eBay delivery hub in your country. After that, any refunds for failed delivery are eBay's issue.
For UK readers - I tend to use Parcelforce for domestic deliveries, but Royal Mail has a lot of valid options. I tend to take a £5 hit on the actual cost of delivery vs. what eBay will let me charge, but it's better than queueing in the post office for 40 minutes to post them that way.
Worth noting that a pair of shoes plus a box can sometimes reach the 2kg weight limit for international postage with Royal Mail. If you include shoe trees it almost certainly will. Nothing worse than wrapping your parcel up, getting to the post office and realising you over a weight limit for the service you wanted to use.
Tracking codes and lost parcels
Always use a service with a tracking facility - you are completely open to fraud from the buyer if not. The most common issue you will face as a seller is how long things take to arrive, and confirming when they have done so. Tracking handles all of this for you, and while I won't pretend eBay does much to protect its sellers, this gives you as reasonable a chance as possible.
Once you have made a sale and posted the item, record the tracking number ASAP in the relevant part of your eBay transaction. This will provide coverage if anything goes wrong.
The sad reality though is that most couriers and delivery services are pretty crappy when it comes to dealing with lost or delayed parcels. You may want to add insurance onto the delivery, but this can be costly and you should ensure you read the small print to guarantee you are actually covered in case of loss.
Basic coverage for a Royal Mail service can be very poor, something like a max of £50 compensation, which is nothing if you are posting a £500 pair of shoes. Like all couriers, they also make the process of claiming labyrinthine and slow in the hopes that you won't bother.
As a rule of thumb, the sale is your problem until it reaches the buyer - this can get quite murky when selling overseas, as customs can introduce some unpredictable delays that are essentially impossible to influence as a seller.
Collection and trying shoes on before buying
I do sometimes offer local collection (less so with Covid though). Scam alert - ensure your buyer doesn't pay the usual way then ask to collect instead of posting. eBay will still want proof of postage (which you of course won't have) and the buyer may be able to claim the item was never received.
You may want to specify cash on collection, though note eBay will still take a cut from the sale if they believe you have arranged a sale through messages - you will get charged a fee on the sale if it looks like you've tried to play the system (eg. arranging a buyer to contact you and taking the item off from sale) and you might be nervous about taking possession of a couple of hundred quid in cash from a stranger.
If you are going to let somebody try before they buy, the normal rules apply. Ensure you meet in a well-lit, public place with CCTV. I like to meet in a coffee shop and sit far away from the door.
Bullshit with buyers and blacklists
It would be nice if it weren't so, but some buyers and potential buyers you encounter on eBay will be, excuse my French, total shitheads. The most common types will be:
Non-paying auction winners. Don't ask me why but so many people just never pay for what they win. Don't hound and chase. If they haven't paid quickly, send a polite reminder, then put in a request to cancel the sale if no response. Move on and relist, and most importantly, add them to your block list so you don't have to deal with them again. Do report them for non-paying, although unfortunately eBay seems to take very little action against them.
Opportunist partial refund seekers. They will buy a pair that you have stated are not new, and even having seen the photos will say "these are in worse condition than I thought, I want a x% refund or a return". Up to you with this really - a small refund and blocking the buyer might be best for all and easier to handle than a refund, return and relist, but if it's a point of principle for you, do call their bluff and ask for the refund.
The chronically impatient. Those that start hounding you for delivery updates once it's been in the post for a day. As long as you post within the required window and use tracking you will be fine - I blame Amazon for people's impatience beyond that. This can be tricky when dealing with international buyers - sometimes things get randomly get stuck at customs, and it's a pain to find anyone who will help you with it (again, GSP recommended for this as it becomes eBay's issue).
Weirdos. Look, sometimes you'll get messages from someone and there is just something... off. Weird questions, or aggressive haggling, or just odd tone, or bizarre requets. Don't be afraid of blocking them. All of the times I have been scammed are when I ignored that gut instinct that something was off with the "buyer".
Full-on scammers. The ways and methods to scam someone on eBay are many and changing and difficult to protect against. This is fortunately relatively rare, but it can be upsetting and costly. You may want to seek legal remedies beyond whatever minimal investigation or restitution eBay will offer, but again, the best advice here may be to swallow the mistake and move on. The main thing you can do with this is to always sell by the book - don't agree to weird requests like posting to a different address to the one specified on the auction. If somebody asks you to do something outside of policy and you refuse, you have full freedom to cancel orders and can also ask for any unreasonably bad feedback on that basis to be deleted.
To add a buyer to your blacklist have a look here. You can also set buyer requirements, although as far as I am aware you can no longer specify sales only to people with x number of purchases in past or blocking zero feedback buyers.
I confess I always forget this part, but leaving feedback for a good buyer and seller is always welcome. There is nothing wrong with dropping a polite request to people once the transaction is completed to ask for this transaction.
Being horrified at the fees eBay charges now and swearing never to use them again and looking at other options
The last and most important step is of course seeing the actual amount of money you get from your sale, and swearing up and down you are going to use a better service next time, and then realising they are really the only game in town and just carrying on.
But seriously, there are other options. Consider the following:
Marrkt - a superb site that I've spent far too much money on in the last few months, Marrkt act as consignment resellers for a fee
Consignment sellers on eBay - the most famous are people like LuxeSwap. Send them your shoes; they do all the photos and boring eBay sales stuff, then take a cut of the final sale value
Grailed - though more seen as a streetwear destination, Grailed has a decent marketplace of classic menswear too. Not without its own fees and controversies though, so have a look into that first
Vestiare collective / Realreal - more resellers, although they offer options to provide your own photos etc. Fees are generally a bit lower than the previous options
Facebook - while Facebook marketplace is probably a pair venue for your £1,200 pair of Gaziano & Girlings, there are specialist Facebook groups for selling shoes. There are probably other options on other forms of social media, but I don't really... do... that sort of th